Clara Kluk — Creativity Leadership, Entrepreneurship, and Social Innovation
New Podcast Episode of Creative Flow: Thinkers and Change Agents
We are sharing the podcast and transcript of the seventeenth episode of the Creative Flow: Thinkers and Change Agents podcast featuring guest Clara Kluk. She shares great wisdom and humor in this episode while she details her incredible life and work.
Listen to the Podcast:
https://radiopublic.com/creative-flow-thinkers-and-change-G7grRp
Hosts Kim Marie McKernan and Anthony Billoni share their favorite quotes from the guests.
Kim’s Favorite Quote
“Innovation is like sex. Everybody talks about it, but not everybody knows how to do it.” Clara Kluk
Tony’s Favorite Quote
“I decided to take the Masters in Creativity program. And this was, I think, January or February. By June, I was in the program in Buffalo, NY learning how to problem solve. I left my profession to become a facilitator in creativity, changing my way of working, my way of dressing and my way of thinking about my future.” Clara Kluk
*Transcript of Podcast
Kim Marie McKernan 0:11
This is the 17th episode in the Creative Flow podcast series, hosted by Anthony Billoni and Kim Marie McKernan. It features discussions with thinkers and change agents important to the science of creativity.
Anthony Billoni 0:25
We would like to welcome Clara Kluk. Clara is a renowned global leader in creativity, author, and entrepreneur from Mexico. She started as a successful artist in Mexico City before deciding to pursue her MS in Creativity from the Center for Applied Imagination. As a founder of a creativity and innovation company called Grupo Piensa, she oversaw growth to 14 offices worldwide and a team of 140 people, including extensive work with the Chinese government. Clara is the author of two books and helped start a Creative Studies Program in Mexico and the CREA conference in Europe while working as an innovation consultant with Coca-Cola. Welcome, Clara.
Clara Kluk 1:16
Thank you very much. Thank you for your invitation. I’m very happy to be here.
Kim Marie McKernan 1:22
Clara, can you please share with us the story of how you became involved in creativity?
Clara Kluk 1:29
Yes, of course. My major is in art. I’m a painter, or the truth is I WAS a painter since the 70s. In 1994, I really was quite a well known artist in Mexico, having exhibitions in galleries, museums, museums in Europe, Japan, and New York. My work was becoming very well known. I used to move around 40 pieces a month, including my original silkscreens, etchings, and tapestries. I was preparing an art exhibition in a very important gallery in Mexico. It’s different from being an artist to be in the market of art. So, you need both parts to know how to paint but also to know how to become a brand. The gallery was doing a very important job in that way. And by the time the exhibition started, the exhibition was totally sold out. Between my clients, they were very powerful people in Mexican politics, among them, the Director of National Security. He bought one of the paintings. I framed it and put it in his house with the condition that this painting will be in the exhibition. In the exhibition where 26 pieces in a very large format. And he accepted to lend me the piece for the exhibition. During the exhibition came the Marchant <spelling>of our ex president and he said he wanted the whole exhibition for the ExPresident. And I said, I’m sorry, the exhibition is sold out. When he knew about this, and saw that I was not going to sell it to him, he left the place . Three days later, they made the hole in the art gallery, and they stole the whole exhibition. There was a lot of noise not because of me, but because they stole the painting of the Director of Mexican Security. So I was in the middle in the powers of an Ex-President and the Director of National Security. He <Director of National Security> was my friend. He’s passed away already, but we were good friends. So to make this become quiet, the Ex-President kidnapped me. I really had a horrible three days that finished at the hospital. It took me 18 years of therapy to overcome what happened in these three days.
I wasn’t able to paint anymore. Thinking I was in bad shape, a friend of mine told me about Winter Festival in San Diego, and I decided to go with her without knowing where I was going. This was CPSI. I went there without any intention at all. I decided to go to his workshop. But in this place, I met, a young, handsome, and very intelligent man, Dr. Gerard Puccio. He was giving his first presentation of his assessment about preferences in creativity <Foursight>. I went to his workshop, and I liked it very much. And when the workshop ended, I realized that he was not feeling well. We were like, one block from his hotel at CPSI. And I told him, please let me help you with your computer. He accepted because he had horrible back pain. In a walk into his room, to give him his computer, he convinced me to take the Masters, the first international program that he was going to be working on. I decided to take the Masters. I asked him to help me with whatever papers I needed. And this was, I think, January or February. In June, I was in Buffalo solving problems.
I left my profession to become a facilitator in creativity, changing my way of working, my way of dressing, my way of thinking about my future. So, it was because of Dr. Puccio, because of the situation and the circumstances where I met Dr. Puccio, that I entered the Masters at the International Center for Studies in creativity. Here I am and many years later.
Kim Marie McKernan 7:38
I love that story. That’s amazing. And I know that Dr. Puccio has changed a lot of creative journeys along his way.
Anthony Billoni 7:48
I just want to know when the movie of your life is coming out, Clara
Clara Kluk 7:53
This is very private. This is something that happened. I didn’t like this to happen. I mean, I saw myself before as an artist painting every day. I lost the passion. And without passion, you cannot be an artist.
Anthony Billoni 8:15
Well, that the world of creativity helped you regain your passion is ours is our gain for sure. Please tell us about how you use your learnings in your work, both in your company and others. Can you share some success stories of applied creativity?
Clara Kluk 8:33
Yes. Well, I founded Grupo Piensa, Piensa means “think.” And the name Piensa is because I wonder what I was going to do with my clients. And I thought that what I’m going to do is make them think, so this is why the name came. I started from the beginning with the people that I knew as an artist, and I came very quickly as a very successful consultant. Maybe what helped to me were some decisions that I took before leaving the Masters, before opening Piensa. The first one is that I realized that I didn’t want to do any training that my work had to really go deep into the process and becoming a facilitator for especially for new products because I could use my skills as an artist in developing new products.
So, my work was mainly in developing new product services using the process and as a consultant. This was the first thing in. I have never done any training. Now, the second decision that I took is that this is a process where you can get into a company for eight hours or 16 hours. This is a long process, a process of transformation. And if I could not get the trust of my client, this was not the client for me, and I was not that person for him. Besides the fact that I didn’t want to do any training. This meant that my client was not Human Resources. I have never worked with Human Resources. My clients are the CEOs or the Marketing Directors. And I only work with the people that I like and with the process that I like. I have been very lucky because I like a lot of them. Then the third decision that I took is that I met in Buffalo very bright people. Very Bright. Among them was Tim <Switalski> and Gerard <Puccio> and John <Cabra> so I decided from the beginning that this was something that I wasnt’ going to do by myself. I could bring with me to Mexico other consultants that could help me. They could y manage the areas that I’m not so skilled at, <such as>developing the problem. Because I’m more skillful with “getting ideas” or “implementing,” I needed to bring from Buffalo other facilitators that are brighter than me. So, with these three things. Changing my client to CEOs. I decided the program has be a long program, and not doing this by myself. Piensa became a really large company. Maybe in it’s time the largest consultant company in innovation in Latin America.
Anthony Billoni 12:34
Could you think up in your time, and it sounds like you’ve worked with hundreds of clients, one pinnacle success that was really an aha?
Clara Kluk 12:45
Oh, I have many I can tell you. Many of them. For instance, have you seen the American Express that is made of stainless steel? Yeah. This started with Piensa Group for Latin America. My challenge was to make stainless steel cost less than paper. When we did it, we sold the idea to American Express. So, this card that is stainless steel started with a process with me.
I have with the Chinese government twelve patents in the automotive industry with fuel cell This is energy with hydrogen and the whole airport in Berlin transportation uses these motors that we developed with the Chinese together with Henkel <spelling>. They are the was the ones that broke the clue <solved the problem> and <inaudible> group was my client for many, many years. <several inaudible words> was developed for a Mexican company. We developed many processes with Coca Cola that gave them a lot of success. It was a process that we did together. So, I can tell you, a lot of them.
Anthony Billoni
Really, very nice. Thank you.
Kim Marie McKernan 14:42
Tell us about your work establishing a creativity program in Mexico.
Clara Kluk 14:51
In Mexico, there are many places that I have been working. First, the moment that I saw how powerful the CPS process is and how this can become an innovation, we decided, not by myself but together with all the people in my company, that we had to get into our social innovation. It was not fair to have just very large clients and not to use this process, for people that could have a need for it. The first step we took was in education, but it was not a success. Education in Mexico, unfortunately, is not a place that they see creativity as important. I could say I have said it in many workshops. I’m very grateful for the Mexican education area. Because of what they do to children, I have a lot of work with adults. So education was not the way to go. It was really a huge effort without any success.
But we got along with some banks, that were lending money to very poor people. We did a joint venture with them to develop companies where the people had a good idea, but they didn’t have a good solution. Besides the clients work, we came up with some very interesting proposals. By this time, my son was already working with me. He was extremely interested in an orphan house in Uganda, and all his efforts went to Uganda to Malayaka House <spelling>. If you look at it, he developed for these 18 orphans, a huge future. In Mexico, I worked more with good ideas of entrepreneurs in places that they were so poor that it was needed. My intervention was needed and some of them became huge successes.
Let me give you some examples. The main food in some places is the tortilla, the corn flour bread. But these people didn’t have any kind of protein. So, I was really looking of how we could give them protein. We developed a company to farms crickets. So, these farms of crickets became the protein that when you mix them with the corn flour, they became tortillas with a lot of protein. Very good protein. So, this is one of the companies that is working extremely well.
Another example that I can give you is a there is a bread company in Mexico that they are my clients called Bimbo. This is the largest bread company in the world. I the States, they have a small brand that is called Sara Lee.
Kim Marie McKernan
Oh yeah.
Clara Kluk
They are the owner of the bread in many places. When they sell the bread and the bread becomes bad, they don’t know what to do with it. This was the problem that I had to address with them. We developed some food for cows, but this was not enough. So, what we came up with here, by searching and gathering data, is that the yeast in the bread has a lot of gas. We put this bread that spoiled in very large plastic bags to develop electricity. And now we have, I would say, around 120 farms that are working with the energy of spoiled bread. It’s working very well. So really, we came with different ideas with things that nobody had thought about. One that was working extremely well is in Chile. With the pandemic, unfortunately, is not working anymore. It is doing children’s parties in cemeteries. You see, they could have their grandparents celebrate their birthday with them. It was working incredibly well, but not anymore. Some of the projects are working fantastically well. I hope we can make them grow again, or find another thing. That this has been very satisfying for me.
Anthony Billoni 21:29
Very much. Yes. And so, I understand your first book was about all this work in social innovation. Is that correct?
Clara Kluk 21:40
Yes. I have this book with me here.
Anthony Billoni
Oh, well, did you do that cover? It’s beautiful.
Clara Kluk
The cover? No, but many of the drawings, yes. Let me show you. Do you see? See, the box full of bread.
Anthony Billoni
Oh, my gosh, there you go.
Clara Kluk
And see how they look. Here you can see how they are using the energy from the bread in their homes.
Kim Marie McKernan
Amazing.
Anthony Billoni 22:22
That’s amazing. What I’d like to know. And you, you opened your story about how you had built a successful business with Piensa, working with rich companies. And you and your son and other folks on your team recognized the need to do something in social innovation. What do you feel is the difference in people creating businesses in those realms? As opposed to the people that have lots of money to do whatever they want?
Clara Kluk 23:01
Yes. The amount of money that they give me. <laughs>
Anthony Billoni
Now besides that?
Clara Kluk
There is not such a great difference, you see. Because, for me, the client is the important part of the process. So, in any cases, I was taking care of my client. And of course, when a company has a lot of money, it is really different for Coca-Cola to make a mistake of $1,000. It doesn’t count. But for a poor person to do a mistake of $1,000 can be the end of his business. I had to be much more careful with how to risk the resources when I was working in social innovation.
Anthony Billoni 24:07
What about their spirit and their drive? Do you feel that there’s a different level of energy between the two companies or the two groups of people that would be doing this work?
Clara Kluk 24:19
This I can tell you that in both cases, the first step has to do with trust. With trust of them. Of me. With the trust of me in the process? When it was there, it was very easy to work.
Anthony Billoni 24:47
Prior to the trust, did you feel that the larger companies or the social companies were more welcoming of your creativity than another?
Clara Kluk 24:57
I think the larger companies were more welcoming. But this doesn’t mean that the people that I was working with were more welcoming. Let me give you an example. With Coca-Cola, there was a new law in Mexico that they had to put a ticket to products that were fattening. So I was going to work with them with a group of 20 young marketing participants from Coca-Cola. I saw them and I said, wow, they were so handsome, so young, and so skinny. How am I’m going to make them understand what it means to be fat? So I went to the Marketing Director, and I told him, I’m only going to do this process, if you accept to use a Sumo < wrestler.>
Kim Marie McKernan 26:09
Yes.
Clara Kluk 26:11
One week before they started with me, I told them if they cannot do that, I cannot work with them. And he accepted it. So, these beautiful skinny 20 <year old> young people had to understand what it means to be fat.
The name Kluk is not my real name. This is the last name of my ex-husband. But as people knew me Clara Kluk, an artist, I continued with the name Kluk even when I got divorced, and he passed away. My three children have been named Kluk. I made a very important decision that the most valuable asset I have in my life is my name. I was not going to risk it in any way. So, when I was working with large companies or with these people that they were risking their hope, I had to protect my name. Just taking processes that I knew were going to be successful. This didn’t mean that I was going to be successful because of the problem or because of the difficulty. It was because of the trust and the motivation on the other had to really continue to work with me. I don’t know if this answers your question. The energy is there because I just worked with people that had the energy.
Anthony Billoni 28:09
It speaks very well to your integrity. You obviously have created a great business because of sticking to your integrity and your values. That’s tremendous.
Kim Marie McKernan 28:22
I love that you work with such a range of companies and have seen such successes at all those levels. Beautiful. Clara, I want to talk about your latest book on ISO 56,000 that sets an international standard for innovation practices in organizations. Can you share more about this initiative and what it means to the future of Creative Leadership within organizations?
Clara Kluk 28:51
Well, my friend Laura <Switalski> laughs a lot with me when I tell her this. Innovation is like sex. Everybody talks about it, but not everybody knows how to do it.
Clara Kluk 29:15
And I think that they are so many articles about innovation. Everybody talks about innovation. But there is not really a way to know if this is working or not. There is a risk of doing innovation without understanding if you really need it. Because sometimes you don’t need innovation. You need to optimize your products. To get rid of your products or your process, not to continue with them. I was talking with the ISO Group of people that have these norms about quality and other things. They asked me to write a book about how to measure in a company if the innovation is functioning there. My last work this year has been all alone with my dog. He and me. We decided to work together on this norm, and measurements on how innovative a company is. This is what I’m doing is printing it now., It’s not really a book is a manual. A manual on how to become a master innovation professional, to bring a company a rigorous process into innovation. I know that it sounds strange, a rigorous process together with creativity but I think that you can match them very well. This was my work. I included a lot of the tools that I learned in the Master’s together with others that I invented. Others I developed with <unintelligible> for MindCamp and CREA, and others I read in many books. It happened to become a manual that can help a company to manage innovation as a process and not have to risk a lot in this process. This is what they have been doing for one year.
Kim Marie McKernan
Wow. That is so needed. I can’t wait to read it myself.
Anthony Billoni 31:58
Clara, what do you see as the future of creativity and innovation work? Where would you like to see our community focus?
Clara Kluk 32:10
Okay, the first thing is, I feel that when you say, “our community,” my heart becomes very happy because I really feel it is a community. This is something that I cherish. I feel like it is a brotherhood more than a community.
Anthony Billoni
We like to call it a tribe.
Clara Kluk
Yes. We are a tribe. And as long as the tribe is strong, this is going to continue. This is the first what I feel about this. But at the same time, I do think that as a plant, you have to put water in every day. It is not just having to try but really putting energy in it. I feel so happy that you invited me because you are putting water in. I am very happy to be here. Because I see you are doing this. I think that, in general, the community has this mentality of abundance. As much as you think that there is a future, as much as you think that creativity is important. This is going to continue. Of course, the future of the Business economy is in innovation and innovation cannot happen without creativity. But at the same time, I think it can be very easy to get into a comfort zone. Being creative has to be like taking a shower; you have to do it every day. To continue, studying, continue accepting new methodologies, new ways of thinking. This is very, very important for our community to be open to what is going to happen because we don’t know what is going to happen. To change with what is going to happen. To know that as a leader your position is to serve others. This is what I see. I see a lot of work in front of us, a lot of work to continue being a tribe. In a splendid future for the community.
Kim Marie McKernan 35:17
I’ve never heard it said better. That’s perfect, Clara
Anthony Billoni
Thank you.
Kim Marie McKernan
The last question which we ask all of our speakers is, tell us about your creative flow?
Clara Kluk 35:32
This is a tough question. Yes, I have been thinking about my creative flow, and this is a long answer. I’m sorry, but I have to give you a long answer. First, there are many roles that you have as a creative person. In my role is as a facilitator, I have to force myself not to be in flow. I mean, I have to be so mindful of where I am. How is my client feeling about the process? What is happening with the group? If I’m really doing the right work, then I cannot get into flow? I have to be absolutely mindful. So flow doesn’t exist there. As an artist, for me, art was a painful process. It was not something that you flow. Maybe when you do it as a hobby, you can flow with it but as a professional artist, knowing that you have an exhibition that you have to be there with your best work, I couldn’t get into flow. When I write that book, honestly, I hate to write books. I’m doing this without my intention just happened because somebody asked me, and I said, Okay. Then I said, Why the hel did I said, Okay? I’m dyslexic. I don’t like to write. But I’m writing. So, I’m not in flow there. I feel flow when I play with my children, my grandchildren. I feel flow when I see my dog outside smelling flowers. I don’t think it is in the work of being creative, that’s dynamic flow. I’m in flow when I’m not in the work of being creative. But I can tell you that every moment in my life, that I have been in the creative process, as an artist, or as a facilitator, as a consultant, as a friend, I wouldn’t change it for anything else. Being and knowing about creativity is a gift that God gave me. I couldn’t end this without saying thank you. Because my future came in the image of an angel, Dr. Puccio, who brought me to this community. I have to thank every one of the people in the community, everyone that has been in touch with me because my life has been immensely happy because of this. But I don’t think that it has been in flow.
Anthony Billoni 38:59
Well, you obviously, your passion is so evident. And however, you want to call flow, I think that you’ve lived a full and rich life regardless, and I’m sure Dr. Puccio will be flattered to hear that he’s your angel. And I would say from my own experience in my life with CPSI and CEF. If I had angels, they would be Sid and Bea Parnes who’re just incredible individuals. Thank you so much, Clara, for bringing us such a rich story and your beautiful experiences all the way through from your quite incredible story of moving from the arts into creativity. And we thank everyone for listening today. This is Anthony Billoni and Kim Marie McKernan. We invite you to tune in again to the creative flow series. We hope you will translate your creative flow into action and that your actions change the world.
*Transcribed by https://otter.ai. Please note that some edits were made to improve readability and we indicated in <> if words were added or inaudible.
